The REAL problems with PvP



  • Ok we all know these problems but I guess there’s not enough commotion about them since they have been around forever.
    If you need proof for any of these I’ll gladly record some RBF matches and make gifs for them. :)

    • DP and Evasion, you already stated that you’re working on a fix for these so I’m not going to go into detail with it, I’ll just leave it here as a reminder.

    • CC Stacking from different sources. Oh boy as a melee class this one really gets my blood boiling when i get 3 knockdowns and a grab during a single CC timer.
      Please look into how CC stacks when applied from multiple people, and make sure it doesn’t reset the timer for the currently applied CC (I’m looking at you 3+ seconds knockdown archers >_>). And I’m pretty sure the Immunity either doesn’t apply at all or applies only to some skills.

    • CC resists only work for some skills and not for others, and they don’t apply as often as they should. We all know that CC resist is capped in PvP (60%), but hell I haven’t resisted a single Lahn magnet grab in my life. (The same problem applies in PvE, where Gyfins still knock you down with 100% KD resistance even though the resist worked in pre-Remastered). I still have to see a Zerk, Lahn or Ranger miss a grab, they pull you back to 1985 when they press that skill.

    • Items like Talis Helmet aren’t applying CC resists at all.

    • Knock-back is more of a suppression CC currently, where it disables you from doing anything, most noticeable on Ranger and Archer skills. (I posted a gif on this a while ago).

    • There’s a mysterious disarm CC currently plaguing the game.

    • Over/Under-tuned damage on some classes. I’m looking at all you 190 AP archers in rbf who just casually 3-tap me with their LMB. Same goes for Lahn damage in general, Maehwa blooming etc. Sorc damage is a joke compared to retail, she needs a little bit of love as well.

    • Super Armors on certain skills being too short/long or not working at all. I don’t know that much about other classes but, on Mystic for example Mass Destruction’s SA doesn’t work at all, which is quite infuriating. I’m sure other classes suffer from the same problems and people will likely add their input here.

    • Frontal guard/Blocking doesn’t block de-buffs at all.

    I’ll be updating this in case i forgot something. Cheers.

    I’ll just leave this here as a reference manual for PvP, in case you aren’t sure how some mechanics work:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jGCRHlaKIl8BIOT9l5EJT5fdTIWXxXm77cb5kbn1DqM/edit#heading=h.j07egcbymubv



  • @Veni buff lahn wen.

    also, ppl do resist my grabs once in a blue moon :(



  • Knockback is supposed to be suppresion cc I don’t see where you are going with this





  • Let’s add some skills, like Witch’s or Wizard’s awakening SA skills, not having bonus hidden DP while casted. That means getting outtraded by every class while casting a single skill.

    Blizzard doesn’t get FG during the cast, I’ve got cc’d so many times during these 2 weekends in RBF by some archer hitting in front of me. So I’m not sure if FG have a decent radius around you, or it’s just this skill not having it properly.

    Freeze doesn’t apply dmg reduction on the frozen enemy.

    Getting cc’d after using V is a known death state. You get cc’d, you use V, you get cc’d in your V again.

    Resistances are a meme, and grab is the top skill in this moment. I’m running 50% of my gameplay with this res and only around 5 grabs get countered during my days (I roughly get grabbed 10 times per RBF). Let’s not even talk about other kind of cc, like some sort of knockback disarming you. (Yes, you don’t have to tell me res are locked at 60% in pvp. You’re nice to want to, but no thanks).
    alt text

    Also, there was a thing called “immunity” in the game. You reach an amount of ccs (lasting decently, not like now where floating lasts 4s sometimes) and you get a moment of immunity from every other cc. That doesn’t exist at all in this client. Indeed, you can see a ninja instantly cc’ing you again once you get up (if you survive after Shuriken Malice (Stiffness), Katana Shower (Floating)>Serpent Ascension (Floating and increasing the duration of the previous cc for some reason).



  • @Veni hmm afaik that was normal duration of knockback its quite long and op imo look at how sorc disc knockbacks on retail
    Also about the superarmors its mostly desync and you’d be dead in them anyways so not worth using at all xd



  • @jerycho007 Just leave this thread and go back to gathering weeds.



  • @Veni Compelling argument, might I suggest you stick it where the sun dont shine. Thank you. Obviously you can apply two knockbacks back to back (haha get it) which could be what happened in that gif. It may aswell be broken cc who knows. To me it just looks like normal knockback without the push back which would make sense if its only partially implemented.



  • @jerycho007 You realize i literally couldn’t move in that gif, during all those shots?



  • @Veni You even posted the combat guide how about you read it then. You arent supposed to move during knockback. alt text



  • @jerycho007 It was re-applied for every single shot, which it’s not supposed to do.



  • @Veni If you think it did then fine, you didnt live long enough in the gif to find out whether it was two chained together and just visually bugging out or if it was actually reapplying, but then its a problem of stacking cc’s in mass pvp and not necessarily with knockback itself.



  • There is no 190 ap archer that 3 taps you.
    Its your dp thats bugged if that happens, we can try it out if you dont mind. And if that really happens im all for a nerf.
    I am not very experienced in pvp so the rest you say might be true.
    Generally Dp needs to be looked into, especially that weird “getting out of rbf and get 1 shotted by mobs” thing, and “having less dp in rbf than your supposed to”.



  • while we’re on this topic theres another issue with pvp ap is also not scaling properly aswell. I tested my valk’s damage with tri/duo weapons using nouver which was around 240-250 ap and i did the same damage with 210-220 ap using accuracy subweapon.



  • @Chi-Long-Qua Isnt it supposed to be like that? Pure AP = Same dmg as less ap + accuracy?



  • @Solid No, normally you use accuracy so you miss less hits, that was the “accuracy meta” you do equally the same dmg because you’re hitting more and getting messed up by rng less



  • @LunareEcho thats basically what i said, same damage



  • @Solid It’s the same DPS not the same damage



  • @Veni

    Would you mind pointing me to the statement in the document where it says that …
    - Frontal guard/Blocking doesn’t block de-buffs at all should not be the case?
    I always assumed that is how it’s supposed to be. Somewhere along the line of:
    “Slow and steady” beats sitting duck, sitting duck beats burst damage and burst damage beats slow approaches.




  • @LunareEcho said in The REAL problems with PvP:

    @Solid No, normally you use accuracy so you miss less hits, that was the “accuracy meta” you do equally the same dmg because you’re hitting more and getting messed up by rng less

    Dude you basically said what I said and then said no.
    In this case it doesnt matter if you call it dmg, damage or dps or however you want. 1 Skill will deal equal amounts of damage if full ap / bit less ap + more accuracy. Ofc you have to take inherent skill accuracy into account but generally speaking it doesnt really matter.


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